Post by The Ultimate Nullifier on Jan 28, 2016 8:35:59 GMT -6
www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/27/retailers-complain-about-collapsing-marvel-and-dc-sales/
Vernon Wiley of The Comix Gallery in Illinois writes to a retailer-only board (reproduced here with permission),
Today I was looking for some feedback from those of you that have experienced a large shift in the big two’s sales as of late. While Marvel’s sales are ok, this has been truncated by the avalanche of product thats been sent to us this season. While I was a big DC store for over fifteen years, they have dramatically fell to third place here in about a year
It seems to me that Marvel is doing “carpet bombing” of all available dollars we and our customers spend, while DC doesn’t seem to have much of a clue on publishing popular comics. Now I realize some of you have shops that are pretty much mainstream and in high traffic tourist type areas that perhaps haven’t been affected much. Here though, the big 2’s sales have fallen off, and despite the gaps in publishing picked up by indie labels, hasn’t been enough to counter it in sales dollars.
Are any of your experiences similar? My shop has been open for over twenty years now, and I’ve never seen anything like this. I am hoping the heads at these publishers see the numbers and the way they are trending for many of us, and perhaps take some corrective measures. Phil, whose chain perhaps exemplifies health, has written frequently about their practices and long term outlook. I can’t imagine when a businessperson of his skill warns of declining cash flow for many of us that I am alone here. Perhaps. I’ll be awaiting February sales numbers from Diamond to see if this trend develops nationwide.
So please chime in with your experiences and solutions on Marvel and DC’s long term efforts to right this ship. If of course, you believe the ships need guidance.
Cliff Biggers of Dr No’s in Georgia concurred, elaborating upon is response for Bleeding Cool,
“We’re seeing the worst falloff of Marvel and DC sales in the store’s 38-year history.
Both companies are losing established readers who no longer feel that the company’s output reflects the sort of comics they enjoy. Stories are lackluster, unfocused, and excessively long as companies think in terms of collected editions, not individual issuees. The tone is mostly dark and uninviting.
Deadpool and Harley Quinn are still very good sellers, showing that comics readers enjoy some funny in their “funny books”–but even those titles have softened a little bit because of character fatigue.
The DC books generating the most excitement right now are Superman: Lois & Clark, Swamp Thing, and Justice League of America–three books that most closely evoke the tone and attitude of classic pre-Flashpoint DC (and two of those are written by veteran creators who worked on those books in the pre-Flashpoint days). These books look great and are excellent, entertaining reads.
My Marvel readers are complaining about art this isn’t what they expect from a Marvel book. Cartoony art, manga-influenced art, quirky art… the concept of a house style is gone. The books that generate the most interest are books like Doctor Strange, All-New X-Men, Amazing Spider-Man, and (of course) Star Wars & Darth Vader–books that mix strong stories and great art.
For the first time in store history, yesterday’s Marvel FOCs saw us ordering single digits on more than half of the line items in the Marvel section. Now, to be fair, that includes collected editions and 2nd printings, which boosted that single-digit title count, but it still included an inordinate number of ongoing titles. As recently as five years ago, there were no Marvel Universe titles that sold in the single digits for us. Quirky concept books like Starbrand & Nightmask or Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur stumbled out of the gate for us.
The most disturbing trend involves established readers who have sufficient disposable income that they can afford to buy what they like to read. A significant portion of these readers are trimming their title lists by 50% or more because they don’t enjoy the current output. When a dedicated DC customer who was buying EVERY New 52 title in 2011 and 2012 is now buying no DC titles, or a dedicated Avengers/Captain America/Iron Man/Thor customer has dropped all of these series, it’s troubling.
We WANT Marvel and DC to succeed. We WANT to sell these books. We are NOT a preorder-only store–we order every title from Marvel and DC (as well as IDW, Image, Dark Horse, Dynamite, Boom, Valiant, Oni, AfterShock, and many other publishers) FOR THE SHELVES. But right now, the retailing challenge for many Marvel and DC is finding an eager audience for these new titles–and finding satisfying titles for established readers who enjoy classic DC and Marvel.”
It will make for some interesting ComicsPRO and Diamond Retailer Day meetings if these feelings are shared by many more. And from initial responses it seems they might be.
Cold Slither40ma1
I'm not buying comics because of the price. My I started to collect comics in the late 80's. Even then, my uncles thought $1.00 was too expensive compared to what they paid as kids. But still, I could walk into a shop with $10, and walk out with 10 books. I was a X-Men and Spider-Man kid. My friend was a Hulk and DC fan. So between the two of us, we were pretty much filled with reading and talking material for a few weeks. But $4.99 is way too much. What kills me even more is that the digital copies aren't any cheaper.Like
danielpreece
danielpreece30m
I don't think Marvel or DC try to appeal to different demographics. DC has customers wishing to read (a) pre-1986 continuity and/or (b) 1986-2011 continuity but cannot find any product aimed at them. DC seems to insist that all their customers buy their New52 revisions whether they like it or not; DC seems to take their customers for granted, that we all will buy whatever they feel like publishing. THAT particular chicken has come home to roost. They're stopping their purchases. (I'm down to 2 DC titles: Hal/GL and Aquaman…and I'm bored with both.) There is NO REASON that DC cannot publish a line for fans of each continuity. Have a New52 line, and a Classic or Legends line. I might feel inclined to put the entire ‘classic/legends’ line on my pull list, because I enjoy ‘buying in’ to a whole ‘universe.’ Anyone remember the 1999 ads “Original Universe”? I was SO pumped for those comics.Like
paulrudolph
paulrudolph27ma1
Interesting article. I recently cut waaaaay back on my pull list because I wasn't enjoying what I was reading as much lately. Glad to see it's just not me. Still sad for the industry.Like
melkormelkor
melkormelkor25m
ILike
melkormelkor
melkormelkor23m
I won't buy a four-dollar comic book.
I wait for trades, get them at 35% off from InStock Trades.com, and unfortunately I don't try out new titles because four bucks a pop is too much of a risk for too little return.Like
danielpreece
danielpreece20m
Price is a killer now. $4 each is a lot. At $3 I recall taking a few chances on new stuff. But as the price approaches $5 each, there is absolutely no way I buy anything not on my pull list. I now need to know I want it before I buy it. We can't go back to the 50-cent days, but when comics were cheaper I loved picking up random comics to try out. That was part of the fun. (It also helped that you usually got a complete or a half of a story, instead of part 3 of a 6 part storyline.) CHEAP has been a major selling point to this hobby. Mostly because it enabled you to read LOTS of comics. That's dead. I'd need a loan from the bank to buy the same number of new comics today (and I have a professional job) that I did as a kid (on a meager allowance). I could buy 5 comics for the price of a 200 pg paperback. Today I only get 2 comics for the price of a 500 pg paperback. Worse, back then I could get 6-8 comics for the price of a movie ticket. Today I c…
danielpreece
danielpreece15m
Another angle on price… I just bought New Teen Titans (1980 series) issues 25-58 for about $1.25 each (a couple issues cost more) in mint condition from a nationally known Colorado seller on Ebay. That's Wolfman and Perez! And Marvel wants me to pay $5 or some manga-looking X-derivative? I don't think so.Like
jsf_1
jsf_111m
@john Odum
Meh. Blame-the-liberals doesn't really work, as a lot of us old school comics fans are quite liberal or progressive… obviously. What I shouldn't have to explain to an Defender of the Old Ways are basic economics such as the market clearing price and supply & demand… the supply is too high, mixed with a price that will not clear the shelves.
Actually it does really work. When you look at the comments where people are saying the characters are unrecognizable, a lot of that reflects the push for diversity by replacing long loved characters with minorities. I'm not saying such responses are just or warranted, only that the push for inclusion has been seen by some as coming at the expense of their favorite characters. It makes them less inclined to keep reading the stories. So this isn't simply knee-jerk conservatism blaming liberal PCness — it's a genuine explanation for part of why some fans are dropping books: the stories aren't about the characters they want to read.
This is coupled with what I think is the more significant issue you mention, which…
xanditz
xanditz9m
Speaking of myself, I stopped all book from Marvel and DC a while ago. I didn't jump in for the new 52 (The only one there was the Demon Knights). Marvel I tried for more time, mostly X-men and Thor titles. Why I stop all of them?
Well, the DK ended and the rest was way too complicate to follow. Way too many crossovers that forced me to buy other titles, and if I didn't, they simply stop making sense. Add together this movie studios wars: FF and X-men are on the fridge until this is fixed…
That is the problem for me: too much business, not enough good stories. Single titles are ALWAYS warming up for the next big crisis. I got tired.
Nowadays I buy mostly Dark Horse and Image titles. Some Dynamite stuff too. Titan Comics, First Second and Archaia has way more fun books to read, with solid stories, complete histories arches and good art.Like
chaosmonkeypoo
chaosmonkeypoo8m
Sounds like the same old “comics aren't what I read as a kid in the 80's” whining we've seen for years. The fact they specifically point out “manga influenced art” makes this read like something from the late 90's rather than something a current comics reader would say. Same with complaining that story arcs take place over multiple issues to read better in trades. This is all old hat by now and silly to bitch about at this point.
Hell, even saying that “Stories are lackluster, unfocused,” is crazy, when the books have never been more readable and with a clear direction.Like
Vernon Wiley of The Comix Gallery in Illinois writes to a retailer-only board (reproduced here with permission),
Today I was looking for some feedback from those of you that have experienced a large shift in the big two’s sales as of late. While Marvel’s sales are ok, this has been truncated by the avalanche of product thats been sent to us this season. While I was a big DC store for over fifteen years, they have dramatically fell to third place here in about a year
It seems to me that Marvel is doing “carpet bombing” of all available dollars we and our customers spend, while DC doesn’t seem to have much of a clue on publishing popular comics. Now I realize some of you have shops that are pretty much mainstream and in high traffic tourist type areas that perhaps haven’t been affected much. Here though, the big 2’s sales have fallen off, and despite the gaps in publishing picked up by indie labels, hasn’t been enough to counter it in sales dollars.
Are any of your experiences similar? My shop has been open for over twenty years now, and I’ve never seen anything like this. I am hoping the heads at these publishers see the numbers and the way they are trending for many of us, and perhaps take some corrective measures. Phil, whose chain perhaps exemplifies health, has written frequently about their practices and long term outlook. I can’t imagine when a businessperson of his skill warns of declining cash flow for many of us that I am alone here. Perhaps. I’ll be awaiting February sales numbers from Diamond to see if this trend develops nationwide.
So please chime in with your experiences and solutions on Marvel and DC’s long term efforts to right this ship. If of course, you believe the ships need guidance.
Cliff Biggers of Dr No’s in Georgia concurred, elaborating upon is response for Bleeding Cool,
“We’re seeing the worst falloff of Marvel and DC sales in the store’s 38-year history.
Both companies are losing established readers who no longer feel that the company’s output reflects the sort of comics they enjoy. Stories are lackluster, unfocused, and excessively long as companies think in terms of collected editions, not individual issuees. The tone is mostly dark and uninviting.
Deadpool and Harley Quinn are still very good sellers, showing that comics readers enjoy some funny in their “funny books”–but even those titles have softened a little bit because of character fatigue.
The DC books generating the most excitement right now are Superman: Lois & Clark, Swamp Thing, and Justice League of America–three books that most closely evoke the tone and attitude of classic pre-Flashpoint DC (and two of those are written by veteran creators who worked on those books in the pre-Flashpoint days). These books look great and are excellent, entertaining reads.
My Marvel readers are complaining about art this isn’t what they expect from a Marvel book. Cartoony art, manga-influenced art, quirky art… the concept of a house style is gone. The books that generate the most interest are books like Doctor Strange, All-New X-Men, Amazing Spider-Man, and (of course) Star Wars & Darth Vader–books that mix strong stories and great art.
For the first time in store history, yesterday’s Marvel FOCs saw us ordering single digits on more than half of the line items in the Marvel section. Now, to be fair, that includes collected editions and 2nd printings, which boosted that single-digit title count, but it still included an inordinate number of ongoing titles. As recently as five years ago, there were no Marvel Universe titles that sold in the single digits for us. Quirky concept books like Starbrand & Nightmask or Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur stumbled out of the gate for us.
The most disturbing trend involves established readers who have sufficient disposable income that they can afford to buy what they like to read. A significant portion of these readers are trimming their title lists by 50% or more because they don’t enjoy the current output. When a dedicated DC customer who was buying EVERY New 52 title in 2011 and 2012 is now buying no DC titles, or a dedicated Avengers/Captain America/Iron Man/Thor customer has dropped all of these series, it’s troubling.
We WANT Marvel and DC to succeed. We WANT to sell these books. We are NOT a preorder-only store–we order every title from Marvel and DC (as well as IDW, Image, Dark Horse, Dynamite, Boom, Valiant, Oni, AfterShock, and many other publishers) FOR THE SHELVES. But right now, the retailing challenge for many Marvel and DC is finding an eager audience for these new titles–and finding satisfying titles for established readers who enjoy classic DC and Marvel.”
It will make for some interesting ComicsPRO and Diamond Retailer Day meetings if these feelings are shared by many more. And from initial responses it seems they might be.
Cold Slither40ma1
I'm not buying comics because of the price. My I started to collect comics in the late 80's. Even then, my uncles thought $1.00 was too expensive compared to what they paid as kids. But still, I could walk into a shop with $10, and walk out with 10 books. I was a X-Men and Spider-Man kid. My friend was a Hulk and DC fan. So between the two of us, we were pretty much filled with reading and talking material for a few weeks. But $4.99 is way too much. What kills me even more is that the digital copies aren't any cheaper.Like
danielpreece
danielpreece30m
I don't think Marvel or DC try to appeal to different demographics. DC has customers wishing to read (a) pre-1986 continuity and/or (b) 1986-2011 continuity but cannot find any product aimed at them. DC seems to insist that all their customers buy their New52 revisions whether they like it or not; DC seems to take their customers for granted, that we all will buy whatever they feel like publishing. THAT particular chicken has come home to roost. They're stopping their purchases. (I'm down to 2 DC titles: Hal/GL and Aquaman…and I'm bored with both.) There is NO REASON that DC cannot publish a line for fans of each continuity. Have a New52 line, and a Classic or Legends line. I might feel inclined to put the entire ‘classic/legends’ line on my pull list, because I enjoy ‘buying in’ to a whole ‘universe.’ Anyone remember the 1999 ads “Original Universe”? I was SO pumped for those comics.Like
paulrudolph
paulrudolph27ma1
Interesting article. I recently cut waaaaay back on my pull list because I wasn't enjoying what I was reading as much lately. Glad to see it's just not me. Still sad for the industry.Like
melkormelkor
melkormelkor25m
ILike
melkormelkor
melkormelkor23m
I won't buy a four-dollar comic book.
I wait for trades, get them at 35% off from InStock Trades.com, and unfortunately I don't try out new titles because four bucks a pop is too much of a risk for too little return.Like
danielpreece
danielpreece20m
Price is a killer now. $4 each is a lot. At $3 I recall taking a few chances on new stuff. But as the price approaches $5 each, there is absolutely no way I buy anything not on my pull list. I now need to know I want it before I buy it. We can't go back to the 50-cent days, but when comics were cheaper I loved picking up random comics to try out. That was part of the fun. (It also helped that you usually got a complete or a half of a story, instead of part 3 of a 6 part storyline.) CHEAP has been a major selling point to this hobby. Mostly because it enabled you to read LOTS of comics. That's dead. I'd need a loan from the bank to buy the same number of new comics today (and I have a professional job) that I did as a kid (on a meager allowance). I could buy 5 comics for the price of a 200 pg paperback. Today I only get 2 comics for the price of a 500 pg paperback. Worse, back then I could get 6-8 comics for the price of a movie ticket. Today I c…
danielpreece
danielpreece15m
Another angle on price… I just bought New Teen Titans (1980 series) issues 25-58 for about $1.25 each (a couple issues cost more) in mint condition from a nationally known Colorado seller on Ebay. That's Wolfman and Perez! And Marvel wants me to pay $5 or some manga-looking X-derivative? I don't think so.Like
jsf_1
jsf_111m
@john Odum
Meh. Blame-the-liberals doesn't really work, as a lot of us old school comics fans are quite liberal or progressive… obviously. What I shouldn't have to explain to an Defender of the Old Ways are basic economics such as the market clearing price and supply & demand… the supply is too high, mixed with a price that will not clear the shelves.
Actually it does really work. When you look at the comments where people are saying the characters are unrecognizable, a lot of that reflects the push for diversity by replacing long loved characters with minorities. I'm not saying such responses are just or warranted, only that the push for inclusion has been seen by some as coming at the expense of their favorite characters. It makes them less inclined to keep reading the stories. So this isn't simply knee-jerk conservatism blaming liberal PCness — it's a genuine explanation for part of why some fans are dropping books: the stories aren't about the characters they want to read.
This is coupled with what I think is the more significant issue you mention, which…
xanditz
xanditz9m
Speaking of myself, I stopped all book from Marvel and DC a while ago. I didn't jump in for the new 52 (The only one there was the Demon Knights). Marvel I tried for more time, mostly X-men and Thor titles. Why I stop all of them?
Well, the DK ended and the rest was way too complicate to follow. Way too many crossovers that forced me to buy other titles, and if I didn't, they simply stop making sense. Add together this movie studios wars: FF and X-men are on the fridge until this is fixed…
That is the problem for me: too much business, not enough good stories. Single titles are ALWAYS warming up for the next big crisis. I got tired.
Nowadays I buy mostly Dark Horse and Image titles. Some Dynamite stuff too. Titan Comics, First Second and Archaia has way more fun books to read, with solid stories, complete histories arches and good art.Like
chaosmonkeypoo
chaosmonkeypoo8m
Sounds like the same old “comics aren't what I read as a kid in the 80's” whining we've seen for years. The fact they specifically point out “manga influenced art” makes this read like something from the late 90's rather than something a current comics reader would say. Same with complaining that story arcs take place over multiple issues to read better in trades. This is all old hat by now and silly to bitch about at this point.
Hell, even saying that “Stories are lackluster, unfocused,” is crazy, when the books have never been more readable and with a clear direction.Like